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	<title>Comments for Manatee and Gnomes</title>
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	<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Canadian politics from three different views.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:12:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Least of the Weevils by O'Smiley</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/12/02/least-of-the-weevils/#comment-1685</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Smiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=267#comment-1685</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll throw in my two cents:

&lt;blockquote&gt;“We can not have another election so soon after the last one, which was called prematurely to begin with and resulted in very little change.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I disagree, and believe that such has changed since the last election only weeks ago, that an election would produce different results, especially with concept of a coalition playing a role in the way people vote.  Which way this would go I&#039;m not convinced, however, I do believe, with the seriousness of both economic and political instability, Canadians would be more likely to produce a majority option, either Conservative or Liberal/NDP Coalition.

&lt;blockquote&gt;“Harper can not continue to govern without the confidence of the House, and has no prospects of winning it back.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think that it is not Harper that has lost the confidence in the House, but the Conservative policies in general.  However, I would argue that as a whole, the policies of the Conservatives have not lost the confidence of the Canadian people in general.  The Conservatives have not yet had a chance to really put their policies forward since the last election.  The coalition was formed rather hastily before the ideas of cooperation and compromise, that all parties were spouting post election, could be utilized.  Remember that polls had shown a definitive approval by Canadians of Harper as the best choice PM, and would agree with Gnomes that Dion is not a viable choice for PM.  The election results really proved him to be the worst choice amongst Canadians, and was a direct result of &#039;his&#039; choice to resign.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;“The coalition government will likely accomplish almost nothing during its short term except greatly strengthening the two parties that aren’t members.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree fully.  I believe that the current economic downturn will be the downfall of what ever governing party is in place.  The governing party will be the easy target of the Canadian people when looking for blame, and even with miraculous results the governing party will be hard pressed to produce a positive outcome.  

I think that if the Liberals were to wait it would be fairly easy for them to overturn the Conservative in mid to late 2009 and win a governing mandate in an election.  However, if the Liberals/NDP take the reigns it will be theirs to lose, and the result will be in favor of the Conservatives.  The Bloc and NDP have nothing to lose in this coalition.  The Bloc will be able to further their separatist movement, and the NDP will be able to prove to Canadians who may have thought otherwise that they can form a viable governing option.  The Liberals have everything to lose, and the Conservatives have really a lot to gain.  A failed coalition will certainly prove a Conservative majority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll throw in my two cents:</p>
<blockquote><p>“We can not have another election so soon after the last one, which was called prematurely to begin with and resulted in very little change.”</p></blockquote>
<p>I disagree, and believe that such has changed since the last election only weeks ago, that an election would produce different results, especially with concept of a coalition playing a role in the way people vote.  Which way this would go I&#8217;m not convinced, however, I do believe, with the seriousness of both economic and political instability, Canadians would be more likely to produce a majority option, either Conservative or Liberal/NDP Coalition.</p>
<blockquote><p>“Harper can not continue to govern without the confidence of the House, and has no prospects of winning it back.”</p></blockquote>
<p>I think that it is not Harper that has lost the confidence in the House, but the Conservative policies in general.  However, I would argue that as a whole, the policies of the Conservatives have not lost the confidence of the Canadian people in general.  The Conservatives have not yet had a chance to really put their policies forward since the last election.  The coalition was formed rather hastily before the ideas of cooperation and compromise, that all parties were spouting post election, could be utilized.  Remember that polls had shown a definitive approval by Canadians of Harper as the best choice PM, and would agree with Gnomes that Dion is not a viable choice for PM.  The election results really proved him to be the worst choice amongst Canadians, and was a direct result of &#8216;his&#8217; choice to resign.  </p>
<blockquote><p>“The coalition government will likely accomplish almost nothing during its short term except greatly strengthening the two parties that aren’t members.”</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree fully.  I believe that the current economic downturn will be the downfall of what ever governing party is in place.  The governing party will be the easy target of the Canadian people when looking for blame, and even with miraculous results the governing party will be hard pressed to produce a positive outcome.  </p>
<p>I think that if the Liberals were to wait it would be fairly easy for them to overturn the Conservative in mid to late 2009 and win a governing mandate in an election.  However, if the Liberals/NDP take the reigns it will be theirs to lose, and the result will be in favor of the Conservatives.  The Bloc and NDP have nothing to lose in this coalition.  The Bloc will be able to further their separatist movement, and the NDP will be able to prove to Canadians who may have thought otherwise that they can form a viable governing option.  The Liberals have everything to lose, and the Conservatives have really a lot to gain.  A failed coalition will certainly prove a Conservative majority.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Least of the Weevils by Gnomes</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/12/02/least-of-the-weevils/#comment-1684</link>
		<dc:creator>Gnomes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 06:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=267#comment-1684</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d certainly be happy to be proven wrong and have the coalition succeed in making its case for consensus-based government to the public.  But from what I have seen so far, the media ranges from disapproving to rabidly hostile.  In that scenario, I find it hard to believe that the coalition will be able to calmly educate the public on the finer points of Parliamentary democracy.  Without public support, I don&#039;t think it can be very stable.  Though a prorogation could go a long way to discrediting Harper and consequently legitimizing the coalition while buying them more time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d certainly be happy to be proven wrong and have the coalition succeed in making its case for consensus-based government to the public.  But from what I have seen so far, the media ranges from disapproving to rabidly hostile.  In that scenario, I find it hard to believe that the coalition will be able to calmly educate the public on the finer points of Parliamentary democracy.  Without public support, I don&#8217;t think it can be very stable.  Though a prorogation could go a long way to discrediting Harper and consequently legitimizing the coalition while buying them more time.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Least of the Weevils by Manatee</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/12/02/least-of-the-weevils/#comment-1683</link>
		<dc:creator>Manatee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=267#comment-1683</guid>
		<description>&quot;We can not have another election so soon after the last one, which was called prematurely to begin with and resulted in very little change.&quot;

I agree that this is not a good option.

&quot;Harper can not continue to govern without the confidence of the House, and has no prospects of winning it back.&quot;

This is certainly true.

&quot;Dion can not become Prime Minister of an unstable minority coalition after being thrashed in the election and being scheduled to resign in five months.&quot;

I disagree with this.  Let this be an important lesson for Canadians on how our system works.  I see no reason why a government led by any other Conservative MP would be any more or less legitimate than Dion leading the coalition government.  I see no reason why the media would treat it as more or less legitimate.  If the coalition lasts for 18 months, so be it.  

&quot;The coalition government will likely accomplish almost nothing during its short term except greatly strengthening the two parties that aren’t members.&quot;

The possibilities for winners and losers are endless.  I certainly wouldn&#039;t predicti the Conservatives and Bloc are sure winners...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We can not have another election so soon after the last one, which was called prematurely to begin with and resulted in very little change.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree that this is not a good option.</p>
<p>&#8220;Harper can not continue to govern without the confidence of the House, and has no prospects of winning it back.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is certainly true.</p>
<p>&#8220;Dion can not become Prime Minister of an unstable minority coalition after being thrashed in the election and being scheduled to resign in five months.&#8221;</p>
<p>I disagree with this.  Let this be an important lesson for Canadians on how our system works.  I see no reason why a government led by any other Conservative MP would be any more or less legitimate than Dion leading the coalition government.  I see no reason why the media would treat it as more or less legitimate.  If the coalition lasts for 18 months, so be it.  </p>
<p>&#8220;The coalition government will likely accomplish almost nothing during its short term except greatly strengthening the two parties that aren’t members.&#8221;</p>
<p>The possibilities for winners and losers are endless.  I certainly wouldn&#8217;t predicti the Conservatives and Bloc are sure winners&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The President of Canada by Manatee</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/the-president-of-canada/#comment-1682</link>
		<dc:creator>Manatee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=263#comment-1682</guid>
		<description>I agree with all of your points.  I am usually quick to point out the impossibility of the Liberals and NDP working otgether, in election campaigns  for example, due to substantive ideological differences.  However, given the Parliament that was elected, any attempt to govern that has the confidence of the House is both democratic and, given the economic context in which we find ourselves, justified.  

Claims of the coalition being either undemocratic or dangerous are my new pet peeve.  In the economic times in which we find ourselves, the politics of compromise and compassion certainly should trump the politics of hostility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with all of your points.  I am usually quick to point out the impossibility of the Liberals and NDP working otgether, in election campaigns  for example, due to substantive ideological differences.  However, given the Parliament that was elected, any attempt to govern that has the confidence of the House is both democratic and, given the economic context in which we find ourselves, justified.  </p>
<p>Claims of the coalition being either undemocratic or dangerous are my new pet peeve.  In the economic times in which we find ourselves, the politics of compromise and compassion certainly should trump the politics of hostility.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The President of Canada by Gnomes</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/the-president-of-canada/#comment-1681</link>
		<dc:creator>Gnomes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=263#comment-1681</guid>
		<description>If the coalition partners all do as well as Layton did today in making their case, I think they might actually make a go of it:

“I think a lot of people in Canada have been looking for politics to be done a little differently. I think it would be fair to say that what you’re seeing here today is politics done a little differently.  It’s actually done with the notion that people who have had differences of opinion, sometimes quite profound, might be able to find issues and avenues and strategies and ways forward together in difficult circumstances. And to me this is an expression of enormous optimism.”

Perhaps they could adopt the motto &quot;Yes we can!&quot; for their message of hope.  Canadians certainly wouldn&#039;t want to let the US government move left without doing the same, right?  How would we convince ourselves that we&#039;re better than them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the coalition partners all do as well as Layton did today in making their case, I think they might actually make a go of it:</p>
<p>“I think a lot of people in Canada have been looking for politics to be done a little differently. I think it would be fair to say that what you’re seeing here today is politics done a little differently.  It’s actually done with the notion that people who have had differences of opinion, sometimes quite profound, might be able to find issues and avenues and strategies and ways forward together in difficult circumstances. And to me this is an expression of enormous optimism.”</p>
<p>Perhaps they could adopt the motto &#8220;Yes we can!&#8221; for their message of hope.  Canadians certainly wouldn&#8217;t want to let the US government move left without doing the same, right?  How would we convince ourselves that we&#8217;re better than them?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The President of Canada by Gnomes</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/the-president-of-canada/#comment-1680</link>
		<dc:creator>Gnomes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=263#comment-1680</guid>
		<description>P.S.

To revisit my earlier post on the topic, engaging in polarizing politics by sneering at “Liberals, socialists, and separatists” is not a way to build a majority, or support for your minority.

A Liberal-NDP coalition will need the support of the Bloc, this is true. But so does the Harper government.The support of the Bloc, is, in fact, how they passed two of their budgets in the last Parliament. That’s how they planned to replace the Martin minority government – without an election – in the Parliament before last.

Like them or not, the Bloc are the elected representatives of a strong majority of Quebecers. Inflammatory rhetoric does not help or heal. They do not want to “destroy Canada” as with a nuclear bomb or catastrophic climate change, they want to separate Quebec from the rest of it. This is a view I profoundly disagree with, but as a federal state, we must acknowledge the right of the people of Quebec to do so if they choose, and to be represented by whomever they choose while they remain in confederation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.</p>
<p>To revisit my earlier post on the topic, engaging in polarizing politics by sneering at “Liberals, socialists, and separatists” is not a way to build a majority, or support for your minority.</p>
<p>A Liberal-NDP coalition will need the support of the Bloc, this is true. But so does the Harper government.The support of the Bloc, is, in fact, how they passed two of their budgets in the last Parliament. That’s how they planned to replace the Martin minority government – without an election – in the Parliament before last.</p>
<p>Like them or not, the Bloc are the elected representatives of a strong majority of Quebecers. Inflammatory rhetoric does not help or heal. They do not want to “destroy Canada” as with a nuclear bomb or catastrophic climate change, they want to separate Quebec from the rest of it. This is a view I profoundly disagree with, but as a federal state, we must acknowledge the right of the people of Quebec to do so if they choose, and to be represented by whomever they choose while they remain in confederation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Past-the-Post Café by O'Smiley</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/the-past-the-post-cafe/#comment-1679</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Smiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=255#comment-1679</guid>
		<description>I really hope that the issue of election reform takes off and becomes a real issue for Canadians before the next election.  I fear though that not enough people will care, be informed, or agree on a new system for it to be propelled into the forefront of the next election.  Perhaps we (and by we I mostly mean someone other than me) needs to start a campaign to educate the Canadian electorate about the need to change and what we should change to.  It could become the Great Canadian Proportional Representation (PR) Campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really hope that the issue of election reform takes off and becomes a real issue for Canadians before the next election.  I fear though that not enough people will care, be informed, or agree on a new system for it to be propelled into the forefront of the next election.  Perhaps we (and by we I mostly mean someone other than me) needs to start a campaign to educate the Canadian electorate about the need to change and what we should change to.  It could become the Great Canadian Proportional Representation (PR) Campaign.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Economist by O'Smiley</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/the-economist/#comment-1678</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Smiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=252#comment-1678</guid>
		<description>Hey Gnomes, I think Rex Murphy read your article.  He nearly recited it word for word on the CBC&#039;s election coverage last night even refering to Harper as the Economist.  Great job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Gnomes, I think Rex Murphy read your article.  He nearly recited it word for word on the CBC&#8217;s election coverage last night even refering to Harper as the Economist.  Great job!</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2008 M&amp;G Election Pool by Gnomes</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/2008-mg-election-pool/#comment-1677</link>
		<dc:creator>Gnomes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=222#comment-1677</guid>
		<description>The final predictions are in.  The Election Prediction Project and democraticSpace are foreseeing what could be the greatest status quo election of all time, while the UBC Stock Market traders seem to feel that Conservative and NDP fortunes will be a little more positive tomorrow.

As all projections have the Conservatives well below our lowest prediction of 141 and the Liberals well above our highest prediction of 81, it will be the NDP and Bloc vote that likely determines it.  O&#039;Smiley&#039;s numbers look the best there, but will it be enough?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The final predictions are in.  The Election Prediction Project and democraticSpace are foreseeing what could be the greatest status quo election of all time, while the UBC Stock Market traders seem to feel that Conservative and NDP fortunes will be a little more positive tomorrow.</p>
<p>As all projections have the Conservatives well below our lowest prediction of 141 and the Liberals well above our highest prediction of 81, it will be the NDP and Bloc vote that likely determines it.  O&#8217;Smiley&#8217;s numbers look the best there, but will it be enough?</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2008 M&amp;G Election Pool by O'Smiley</title>
		<link>http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/2008-mg-election-pool/#comment-1676</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Smiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manateeandgnomes.wordpress.com/?p=222#comment-1676</guid>
		<description>I hope the outcome comes to: CPC 145, LPC 77, NDP 43, BQ 39, Green 1, Other 3.  It&#039;s the most realistic outcome I could come up with that will lead to a 3 way tie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope the outcome comes to: CPC 145, LPC 77, NDP 43, BQ 39, Green 1, Other 3.  It&#8217;s the most realistic outcome I could come up with that will lead to a 3 way tie.</p>
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